#10: "It's all about the caption"
The Office Hours Interview: Joe Freshgoods
Companies lose millions of dollars a year doing one thing wrong with their marketing.
Their loss is your gain. While I can only speak to the United States, I believe that the hot buzzword that you need to familiarize yourself if you work in marketing over the next few years is “brand narrative”.
A brand narrative is the story your brand tells customers about itself. Brand narrative is the story of the ideas, experiences and values that represent the depth and integrity of a brand's relationship with its consumer. Telling stories through the things you sell. Brand narrative is why you trust that BBQ pit in front of the gas station down south or the taco trucks that pull up in front of construction sites. It’s why people buy Vans even if they never get on a skateboard. It’s why Fenty Beauty sells out and keeps selling out.
32-year-old Joe Freshgoods figured this out 10 years ago. Now he (alongside his partners in Fat Tiger Workshop) are working with some of the biggest brands in the world from their store here in Chicago. Brands like McDonald’s, Nike, Adidas, Chicago’s Museum of Contemporary Art, and the Chicago Bears.
I interviewed Joe this week for Complex (link is below) and in our conversation for that, he dropped a LOT of insight into his approach that didn’t make the final cut. He rarely does interviews so I wanted to make sure these gems didn’t just sit in my Google doc. Enjoy!
You once said in an interview that you like to “tell stories through clothes”. What did you mean by that?
I used to want to be a writer. This was like early on, like grammar school. Writing helped me learn the power of engagement. I learned to be very descriptive. I learned to pretty much inject my soul into writing too, like figuring out (the ability to) causing emotion to the person that's reading it. As corny as this may sound, it reminds me of Instagram. Like, I think sometimes people don't understand about Instagram is that it's all about the caption. The storytelling that goes into the picture…
…is super important.
…Right, it’s more important than the picture itself. I don't look at myself as the person that makes the most superb quality goods but if you can get people worked up and liking the product by making it feel like they're a part of it, you’re onto something. I think a large part of my appeal is that a lot of people just think I came out of nowhere but if you’re a part of — and I hate the word culture -- but if you're part of this, you've probably watched me grow the last 10 years, you know, from an intern to a worker to an owner to having a child, to having a store, to getting cease and desists (laughs). I've been telling you my story in real time. The good and bad. I tell my story through my clothes and my customers honor that.
How does that storytelling process work for you?
I start thinking about the story before I start thinking about the clothes, most people do it the other way around. Like if I’m doing a partnership, I take a notebook and I think about the brands history and then life things with me and my own brand history. I then figure out how to tie those things together.
Speaking of partnerships, you’re doing a lot of them these days. I think a lot of people want to be influencers until they get into those conversations and realize how different those situations are from what they expect. How important has saying no been to you when it comes to partnerships?
it's a fine line. If I don't feel comfortable with the project, I won’t do it. If you're not talking the right numbers, if you making me do stuff I don’t feel comfortable doing, if the project doesn’t tie back to Chicago somehow some way — that’s a big one for me — it’s a no.
Does that ever lead to problems?
It has. The word is when a brand comes to me with my name in the deck already, know what I’m saying? Companies will pull up and be like “Oh Hey Joe!” meanwhile they already have a deck they pitched to their boss with my information in it and my picture and bio. I was like “oh you already sold this to your bosses, now you gotta make it happen”. I now have leverage. I’m not stupid. You asked me to be a part of your project and you're saying that you only have 15k for me and I’m just supposed to smile and take it???
I can tell you from experience: A lot of times your name is in that deck because somebody there thinks they’re more plugged in than they actually are. It happens with folks who work at big brands where they think they have the ability to just snap their fingers and get you to say yes because you should be honored to partner with them or because y’all are mutuals on Twitter or something.
I kinda know what it is, you want to use me for my powers, you know what I'm saying? I'm not stupid. People think we’re all stupid. Where it’s just like “What am I signing? Just hand me some weed and give me a couple of chains and that’s all” (laughs) I know my worth.
I’ve seen you take time out to talk to young creatives, both in-person and online. Why is that mentorship important to you?
I don't ever want to climb up on some hill and become unapproachable. It’s kinda tough to talk about. I wish I can like break down all the deals I didn't sign — good or bad — because people don't know and I want them to understand how it works. They all ask the same question like, “How do I get these big companies to notice me?” and I want to help because I’ve been on the other side of that conversation. With me, I feel like I'm just like a lot of people in Chicago. I say this all the time. Not to be cliche, but I just work hard. We all do here (at Fat Tiger). No rich parents funding us, no drug money, this is all here because of hard work. Write that down: HARD. WORK. (laughs) You look at everything that we built and do, it’s nothing but hard work.
What do you want your legacy to be?
I want to use myself as that reference point for other creatives to show how to do it, especially in Chicago. I often compare myself to someone like (New Orleans rapper) Curren$y. He’s amazing. He’s made money and was smart with it so now he’s gonna be straight forever. You know, he got a couple of hit singles, drops projects when he feels like it but he has a really big and loyal core fan base that supports every time. Not to mention that everybody in the industry fucks with him — they might not say that publicly — but he can text anybody and get a response back. That’s the goal.
YOUR HOMEWORK FOR THE WEEKEND:
Read the full Joe Freshgoods feature I wrote over on Complex.
Office Hours has a podcast. If you like this newsletter, you’ll like that podcast. Listen on Spotify or Apple.
Like a lot of people, the death of Los Angeles rapper/businessman Nipsey Hussle this past weekend has really messed with me all week long. If you aren’t familiar with his music or his legacy, read this. And this. We really did lose a great individual.
TUNES:
If you’ve never heard a Nipsey Hussle song, here’s my top 3 picks to get you started.
Hussle in The House
The entire Victory Lap album, no skips
The entire Crenshaw album, no skips
The Marathon Continues. 🏁